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willbrink
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OT: .357 as "man stopper" cont:
2006-09-06 04:54:53 AM
For those I was having the .357 mag conversation with (pete, Cohen, et al), I was talking with Dr. Roberts about that very topic. What follows are his comments which covers both objective data and "street results." Here's his comments: During the early to mid 1980¹s, like many people, I was duped by articles singing the praises of the .357 Mag 125 gr JHP. I carried a 4?686 and a customized 3?M13 loaded with Fed 125 gr JHP. However, after going on active military duty and being in a position to test ammunition at the Letterman Army Institute of Research with Dr. Fackler, it became obvious that the .357 Magnum 125 gr JHP¹s tended to have relatively shallow penetration, frequently fragmented with resultant decrease in permanent crush cavity, and had temporary cavities of insufficient size to contribute significantly to wounding. In addition, these loads had a large muzzle flash and blast, as well as a relatively harsh recoil which inhibited accuracy and re-engagement speed. As the FBI established a science based ammunition testing program, their research data also showed less than stellar performance from the lightweight .357 Mag loadings, including the 125 gr JHP¹s. .357 Mag can certainly offer adequate terminal ballistics, however, there is a reason very few agencies issue .357 mag revolvers for self-defense/force protection purposes anymore...I personally would prefer a good service pistol in 9mm/.40 S&W/.45 ACP over a .357 mag revolver for SD/duty use. We don¹t do much .357 Mag testing anymore, as it simply is not used by the folks we test for, however, in past years, like the other facilities noted above, in our testing the lightweight 125 gr and under .357 Mag loadings often had insufficient penetration, while the 158 gr and heavier loadings frequently penetrated deeper than ideal for use on biped opponents. To be honest, I no longer have much use for .357 Mag, always choosing a 4-5" .44 Mag revolver (wouldn't mind a .41 Mag or hot .45 Colt) for any backcountry purposes and preferring the controllability and reduced blast/flash of .38 Sp +P loadings for urban self-defense use in 2-3" barrel revolvers. The best modern .357 Mag loading we have tested has been the Winchester 180 gr Partition Gold (S357P). For those individuals who doubt evidence based research and prefer ³street results? the CHP, the largest agency to issue .357 Mag 125 gr JHP¹s on the West Coast, clearly reports significantly better results in their officer involved shootings since switching to .40 S&W 180 gr JHP loadings, based on officer perception, objective crime scene measurements, as well as the physiological damage described in the relevant autopsy studies. The CHP used a variety of .357 Mag loads, depending upon what was available via the state contract. According to the published CHP test data from 1989-90, the .357 Magnum load used immediately prior to the CHP transition to .40 S&W was the Remington 125 gr JHP with an ave. MV of 1450 f/s from their duty revolvers. I first saw the data when it was presented during a wound ballistic conference I attended at the CHP Academy in the early 1990's; I heard it discussed again at a CHP Officer Involved Shootings Investigation Team meeting in November of 1997 at Vallejo, CA. The information reviewed the differences in ammunition terminal performance such as penetration depth, recovered bullet characteristics, tissue damage and other physiological measurements and physical evidence detailed during forensic analysis. - |